Also be aware that some 9mm pistols like the Ruger SR9 will allow for a longer OACL than what will function in its magazines. 480 Ruger. But let’s look at another aspect that I see mentioned all too rarely, momentum in its true physical form rather than expressing it by power factor. Regarding my 230 grain .45 ACP load, at 863 FPS it was barely contained by the 4th one gallon water jug. One more reason I like the XTP is because so far as I can tell it has the shortest shank/bearing surface of any 147 grain JHP. They had also started another practice; that of using a CIP minimum dimension barrels for testing. And just a FYI, but with 9mm Major loads, you do not reload the spent brass a second time. JHP that I’m aware of. Stuffing strips of paper into 1 gallon water jugs has been used by some fellas I know. The dimple in the center of the core was fairly prominent so I wanted to achieve two goals: decrease penetration and increase expansion which I have done to my satisfaction at around 900 FPS from my 4.5” Ruger SR45. And there will be things relevant to other autoloading cartridges as well. Titegroup’s unique design provides flawless ignition with all types of primers, including lead-free versions. You’ll be running near or above the standard Maximum Average Pressure, or MAP, where with a good powder getting an SD of near 10 is not difficult. Load them fast enough that they can mimic the recoil of your carry load. Would like to try and work up an accurate pistol load for 25yd bullseye targets. My defense loads are crafted as carefully as my hunting loads while I’m the quality control department; usually loading single-stage or single-station with a LEE Classic Turret press. Objective is to determine how accurate a load can be developed. Some rifle loaders set OACL to crowd the lands as close as possible. Before the .45 ACP Golden Saber data was developed I used the data for the 185 grain XTP: 1152 FPS with 9.9 grains of Silhouette. In the response I was told that it appeared that some of my statements contradicted each other so I want to cover this in regard to the statement I made earlier about pistols with short chambers. Sierra’s data runs a bit warmer than Lyman’s does. One simple way to find out would be with the “plunk” test by dropping a bullet into the chamber with the muzzle point downward 90 degrees. The Lyman manual lists pressure for their 147 grain TMJ load at 29,000 CUP. They, like some handloaders will tell you is that +P ammunition is approximately 10% over standard pressure and how the +P limit of 38,500 PSI was reached. For both the 38 SPL and the 9mm P (as well as some others), they keep it down as there are a lot of old guns out there that will not take the 10% overload of a +P loading. Just so we’re square on that I’ll list those various lengths that I use in both SI and Standard units. Please. Okay, call me OCD at this point because I’ve heard that many times, as well as hearing that the powder charge does not have to be exactly the same in each cartridge. +P Is maximum 38,500 PSI. XTPs in .45 ACP with warm charges of Silhouette I can get SD down below 10. The fastest was a Hornady 90-grain XTP at 1,485 fps powered by Ramshot Silhouette. I can’t remember what his powder charges were now but he found velocity comparable if not better than using 3N38. I don’t have the pressure testing equipment I’d like to, but from the 35,700 CUP data I’ve been using for many years none of the loads we’ll be discussing should even reach 35,000 CUP. CZ 75 series pistols are known for their short chambers as was the case for my P-01, but the thought occurred to me that the 124 grain Golden Saber might be a solution. I got the load back in '89 from a "Taffin Tests" article in the Handloader magazine. I have fired into wet newsprint placed before the water jugs as well as after them. Make sure to examine the powder charge level in every case when developing any handload and particularly high velocity or +P loads. So, only having the pre-existing value of 35,700 CUP to work with it appears much more likely that when they tested in PSI it came out very close to 38,500 PSI. That is the methodology for all of the handgun defense calibers I use personally: 9 x 19mm, .357 Magnum and .45 ACP. Find what you need in four easy steps. Most manuals stop at 147 grains, though Hodgdon and Vihtavuori have data for 150 grain bullets. If not, find a fired WIN case because almost anyone who picks up their brass at the range is going to end up picking up spent cases from someone who fired White-Box ammo and left their cases on the ground. Re: 9mm Luger load for Hornady 124 XTP by PhotoEscape on Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:13 am I load 124gr Speer Gold Dot HP as my defensive +P ammo with 7.65gr of A7, at 1.10" OAL with CCI500 primers, 0.375" - 0.377" crimp. I also know where they could find a very good ballistician without much effort! That is my aim in writing it. data [PDF] In the case of new handloaders and loading for any handgun cartridge I’ve always advised that they use a powder that will fill at least 50% of the case. I have found that just about everyone’s pet theory has some merit. My initial loads had an OACL of 29.5mm/1.161” up until I got to 7.5 grains of #7 for 1112 FPS from my 4.14” barrel. +P Is maximum 38,500 PSI. The current Lyman manual (49th Edition) does not have load data for anything heavier than 147 grains, but older manuals do. In a SPEER manual the data should be the same for both bullets. Now I’ve mentioned Lyman data several times already and I will tell you this: in my 29 years of handloading I have never had a single problem using Lyman data. Bullet: Berry’s 147 grain plated 9mm Round Nose; Powder: Hodgdon CFE-Pistol, 4.2 grains mainspring and a 9 lb. If you Google overpressure ammunition you can learn a few things on the subject. My 230 grain XTP load in.45 ACP has a power factor of 207 where the subsonic 147 grain JHP load in 9mm is significantly lower at 143. JHP, I’ll be fair with an average velocity of 975 FPS: 147 x 975 / 225218 = .636 lb-seconds, approximately 2/3 the momentum of the 230 grain .45 ACP load. So when you measure the fine line you marked at .200” above the rim, only the bottom leading edge of the probes should be on that line with the mic. In the “Dear Labby” section here I asked sometime back if Western used a minimum dimension barrel for their latest 9 x 19mm data. But, when safe pressure allows you to increase the powder charge for higher velocity, things change for the better. Trying to determine pressure or overpressure from the condition of the primer post firing is not as conclusive as some believe. The factor 7000 converts grains to pounds and 32.174 Ft/second/second is the acceleration due to gravity. Philip P. Massaro is the President of Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC, a custom ammunition company, which is comfortably nestled in between the Hudson River and Catskill Mountains of Upstate New York.He has been handloading ammunition for 20+ years, and has loaded a wide range of pistol and rifle ammunition, from the lightest plinking loads through the heavy hitting cartridges … Another point here, when I loaded the 124 grain Golden Saber to Remington’s spec for their +P load at 1180 FPS the jacket and core separated. Pistol and Handgun Reloading Data. Getting back to OACL, there is a statement in my SPEER #11 printed in 1986 that when the 9 x 19mm’s pressure maximum according to SAAMI was 35,700 CUP. You might be able to use my OACL in pistols that would not allow the use of a JHP as long. Cloudflare Ray ID: 622ed2feaee42313 The 9mm is not quite as good as some of its fans think, but it is a better cartridge than most of its detractors would have you believe. Momentum = M x V where the result is expressed in lb-seconds. Remember, these are specific cases and I’m only going to recommend Accurate #7 here because it has few peers when it comes to loading the 147 grain JHPs. Once the case-mouth has stopped at the chambers shoulder, the rifling/lands of the barrel have seated the bullet to its “Max. I will not hold anyone responsible for sharing their personal load data for these loads that they have used and want to share. 45 Auto. The reason being is to help handloaders better understand the pressure characteristics of different powders used to load the same bullet in the same caliber; especially when the pressure is listed. Okay, you just barely start your JHP into the fired case and drop it into the chamber. The 147 grain XTP has a sectional density of .167 which is higher than that of a 180 grain .40 or a 230 grain .45 by just a bit. Case expansion from standard pressure loads near or at the top end will tell you what your particular chamber allows case expansion to be. I thought I could prevent this with higher velocity and did using Silhouette at around 1222 FPS. Obviously your velocity expectations can’t be as high as I’ve quoted for my 4.14” SR9 if your pistol has a shorter barrel. Sure, you’re wallet is a deciding factor, but low cost cast lead and particularly poly-coated lead bullets will stretch your shooting budget. In most cases these loads were underpowered. None of the techniques I will offer are particularly difficult. Since both tests can be conducted simultaneously, some choose to do so. I recently stocked up on 115 gr. Where does the answer lie? You may see diagrams of this at various websites or in your manuals. Do NOT resize the case! Now I’ll explain my earlier remarks about using a micrometer for this. But as some of us know, one single event impacted 9mm ammunition like no other: the 1986 “Miami Shootout.” Several FBI agents were killed in a gun battle following a robbery because the latest “new tech” bullet underperformed with one perpetrator shooting several agents while a Winchester 115 grain Silvertip was lodged within 1” of his heart. But in this case we’re only talking about a difference in slide mass of around 3% in favor of the SR40. Charge of Accurate #7 for the 147 grain SPEER TMJ at 7.2 grains with a Federal primer while using an OACL of 1.095” giving 1047 FPS. Since I have to give an opinion on a data source I’m going to recommend one of the current Lyman manuals. Whether you want to reload your own ammo for competitive or recreational purposes, we have a vast selection of reloading data to find that perfect pistol load. Recovered diameter is ¾” or better while the possibility of over-penetration is significantly reduced. Starting on page 22 and through page 23 there are 3-5 9mm +P 147gr load recipes for each of 9 different powders (30-40 total loads). Pay the $10 more for a unit that calculates and provides Standard Deviation when you want it! Another way to prevent getting this page in the future is to use Privacy Pass. 9mm Luger. I’ll be quoting those for Hornady XTPs but there should be little or no difference regardless of bullet manufacturer. combined with .636 lb-seconds of momentum. You’ll find that same load in the Lyman 49th edition or the Pistol and Revolver III except that they loaded longer at 1.115” and used a CCI-500 primer to get a velocity of 1014 FPS. No pistol caliber in my experience is easier to gauge than the 9 x 19mm. And for those that carry 9 x 19mm pistols in the field for small game hunting, you may find this article enlightening as well. Fackler and the FBI’s next attempt to find the best service cartridge was the 10mm “Lite.” A 180 grain .40 bullet reduced in velocity from previous loads to around 980 FPS. If you feel like you’d prefer the 147 grain SPEER Gold Dot, the TMJ data will work. The more closely that each round in the magazine performs exactly the same, the more consistent you can expect the result to be at a time when you really have to put it to the test. Western Powders provides +P data for 9mm Luger,.38 Special and.45 Automatic. And of course, there are those whom you can find on YouTube who use the real thing, 10% ordnance gel calibrated to the FBI standard. Pound for pound, very few pistol cartridges have greater case-head strength and some of those that do were derived from the 9 x 19mm, i.e. (See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.) SAAMI was testing in PSI by piezoelectric transducer by that time. Most of the complaints come from them not expanding as large in diameter as some of the “new tech” JHP bullets. As you increase OACL with the 9 x 19mm, keep in mind that the brass above the web is thinning as you get closer to the case-mouth, so case capacity increases to a slightly greater degree. If you are on a personal connection, like at home, you can run an anti-virus scan on your device to make sure it is not infected with malware. I've been reloading 9mm for about 25 years and made a pretty comprehensive study of bullets, powders, loads, etc. Spring weight alone does not equal the playing field as was learned in the early days of the .40 S&W when some manufacturers simply put a .40 caliber barrel in their existing 9mm and increased spring weight accordingly. One article at Wikipedia isn’t bad but it has a few errors in regard to the 9mm. JHPs I would use Silhouette or Accurate #7. I believe that recoil plays a major role in all of this. I feel more comfortable when momentum is above .650 /lb-seconds. Unlike the SAAMI CUP and PSI systems where a mechanical or electronic device is pressed or crushed by the cartridge case at a location about mid-chamber, the CIP system requires a hole to be drilled in the case where the piezoelectric transducer is directly affected by the burning and expanding gasses. 2.8 gr. Maybe I’m OCD on that as well because I prefer to use dense spherical powders, ball or flattened ball in my handloads. I recently saw the question of handgun cartridge energy come up and it was addressed succinctly by an experienced hand who simply stated ( to those who believe handgun rounds do not have enough kinetic energy to make any difference in terminal performance ) “shoot the same weight/same velocity FMJ ( or any non-expanding bullet ) and JHP into water jugs and see if you notice any difference. A low powered 9mm load I use for action shooting requires the use of a lighter weight mainspring and recoil spring for proper functioning in my gun.....so I use an 18lb. Look at your data sources and you may find that even a +P designation was unnecessary. For clarification, the 9mm NATO often utilizes a 124-grain FMJ RN “Ball” bullet at 1,250 fps, which is loaded to higher pressures than 9mm Luger commercial ammunition and is listed with a maximum average pressure of 36,500 psi (proof loads are 45,700 psi). My conclusion is that a 115 gr. I was one of those who jumped on the .40 S&W bandwagon very early on. This is why I don’t use 115 grain JHPs except for one possible situation where I might if necessary. Would appreciate any experience you have. In particular, some excellent research by Charles Schwartz whom I believe brings some invaluable data to the discussion with empirical evidence for those doing their own testing in regard to expansion, penetration and predicting the performance of jacketed hollowpoints in 10% ordnance gel, the perceived grail for testing defense load effectiveness these days. The fastest was a Speer 90-grain Gold Dot powered by Winchester 572 powder at 1,377 fps. Your IP: 89.184.75.139 This is the point where the case-MOUTH has come into contact with the shoulder inside the chamber where the throat/leade is in the barrel, and where the rifling/lands begin. Today Ruger states that “no 9mm Parabellum ammunition manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or known not to function in these pistols.” I point this out because of the paranoia you may have seen about 9mm +P ammunition causing accelerated wear. Penetration through 3 jugs and into the 4th is excellent and the goal for my own loads. Penetration has never been a problem for 9mm 147grain JHPs except in the early days of the bullet and subsonic velocity when because of the slow velocities there were a number of over-penetration incidents that could have easily been solved with higher velocity/greater expansion, but only one man at the time had the solution: Peter Pi of CorBon. That does not mean that it can’t happen to you! He had a definite improvement in accuracy. After reducing standard pressure to 35,000 PSI some data providers began listing pressure in both standards, 35,000 PSI and 33,000 CUP. During some of my research in past years I had some conversations with another researcher whose main interest was the .357 SIG, but he made a lot of head-to-head comparisons to the 9 x 19mm including the +P version. I can not make the following statement definitively without empirical evidence because I honestly don’t spend a lot of time concerning myself with it. Shop Nosler Products. Whenever a handloader can not find data for a particular JHP I’ve always recommended the data for the SIERRA 125 grain JHP. Nothing so hard about that, right? The SR9 comes with an 18# captured recoil spring while weight used in the SR40 is 20#. That’s a power factor of 165.4 which is technically 9mm Major in power factor while I do not believe its pressure would be above 33,000 CUP/35,000 PSI. Knowing that the 147 grain supersonic load would yield higher slide velocity than say my 124 grain loads. In short, they hold together very well. to 147 gr. for OACL which is 1.169”. cartridges like the 9 x 23mm Winchester. Power factor is about 190 where we see around a 13% gain over the 147 gr. What would my Brothers recommend for a best "all-around" 9mm powder? But, it may well be a function of the burn rate of the powder selected in relation to the cartridges operating pressure. Rather than the sharp blades on the caliper a micrometer, unless you have the blade type, will have flat probes. Runs 1350 fps. You may see some variation because barrel chambers are not all exactly alike. Take the defense bullet you plan to use and just barely start it into the FIRED case. The case-rim will extend above the barrel hood, which most barrels have, which is at the top of the chamber where barrel length is measured from. Occasionally, we will temporarily publish load data on this page when a bullet becomes available and is not yet listed in the latest edition of the handbook. CIP has since lowered that to just above 34,000 PSI. By no means is this any .45 vs. 9mm debate. No thank you, very much. This I’ll refer to as the “dummy” cartridge. Shortening by .010” for your loaded rounds will get you under that @ 1.165” but here I would drop down to 29.5mm/1.161” and even then, some magazines will not work with loads as long. To simplify, I get the same result by multiplying Bullet weight multiplied by velocity then divided by 225218. The lower you can get the SD of a load the better chance you have of all 10 rounds in the string (or how ever many you fire in your strings) the more similarly those loads are likely to perform on target. Completing the CAPTCHA proves you are a human and gives you temporary access to the web property. 41 Rem. I am completely self taught through the writings of true experts and I am glad for it. For comparison, my 124 gr. The shooting world believes that the FBI protocols for ammunition performance are the latest gospel. JHP like the XTP. 9MM Standard Pressure, as layed out by SAAMI Specifications is 35,000 PSI. Possible OACL.”. Using the dial caliper, you can wait until you near Max. This is NOT a recommendation by the author, or Western Powder Company that you make and carry your own defense loads and by doing so; you personally accept all responsibility and liability. Let’s talk about Sectional Density now and hopefully they’re given in your load manual. I can’t think of many precise measurements that are easier to do with jacketed bullets of nominal diameter, .355” in this case. Well the 9mm 147 grain XTP core will flatten at the top with just a tiny dimple sticking up in the center. Do not try to seat and crimp in one operation. Search this Thread: Advanced Search. One side benefit that can be useful is that they almost invariably give lower and less offensive muzzle-flash, which at night can rob you of your visual acuity after the first round is fired. Before Johan Loubser’s talents were acquired along with the purchase of Accurate Powder Company he listed the Max. If you are reasonably proficient with arithmetic and using your precision measuring tools with a comfortable level of dexterity, you won’t have any problem using these techniques. To make things even simpler, you can just shorten your handloads to the next lower .5mm. Myself, I could live with a single pressure standard such as the NATO designation. I don’t mean to bemoan the practices of my host, but not so long ago Western Powders provided 9mm +P data for every powder they sell that has application in handgun handloads including Nitro 100 and Competition. Well, not with the pistols designed to handle it! I use 7.0 gr Herco under a 115 gr Gold Dot for a +P load in my CZ75. The +P data did the same. While we’re on this subject, let me state that these authors conclude that: “The key advantage of the piezoelectric transducer is the ability to generate the complete pressure-versus-time history of the internal ballistic process, whereas the copper crusher gage is capable of measuring on the peak magnitude of the pressure pulse.”. I never had one single problem and the opinion I shared with others was never use a flake powder faster burning than Unique, or a spherical faster than N330 for standard pressure loads. I have a tack-driving 9mm load that I am glad to share. Power factor is 155. I live in the real-world, the physical world with physical solutions. This is one of those “crossovers” I mentioned between loading for rifle and pistol. Considering the longer OACL I find that very consistent with the Accurate data as well as the results I get. Bullet size is .355″ (jacketed) in diameter. There is another that I’m familiar with from hydraulics, but BARS is typically used only by Europeans as well as measurements in Mega-Paschals. I’d like to get somwhere in the 1120-1140fps range. Cartridge Information. For benchrest rifle shooters, there are additional steps often taken that are not common to loading for hunting rifles and handguns. Pressure will decrease by loading longer. This does not mean your gun will "blow up" if you exceed these specifications by 1 PSI. We know the pressure rating for +P, but +P+ is a bit of a pink elephant in my opinion. Do the test for OACL/chamber length for your bullet. Charge but using the 185 grain Golden Saber, the fastest velocity I was able to achieve was 1087 FPS. This article is simply a “how to” to make sure that the handloader is correctly following the necessary steps in developing their own loads. Western Powders provides +P data for 9mm Luger,.38 Special and.45 Automatic. Since we now have the momentum for the 9mm 147 gr. Its pressure rating was established by CIP and it is set at 36,500 PSI. (See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.) There is one measurement we’ll be making where a micrometer can be used, where with the greater number of graduations for those mics that are accurate to and read to 1/10,000”, that’s one Ten-Thousandth, you can read changes to a more finite scale although not a necessity.